r/leagueoflegends Oct 02 '22 Silver 1

LEC_Wooloo: possibility of AST loaning his spot to KC

[Sources] Thread with some updates about KC x AST:

Last week I discussed the possibility of Astralis giving their LEC spot to KC in exchange for shares within the French organization.

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575324736741376?t=Aob60fN4sN37Vf3aEai55A&s=19

It seems an alternative deal came up on the table which would involve a loan of Astralis spot through Riot.

I don't know how realistic this is or if the TPA even allows it but Karmine Corp joining the LEC could in my opinion be beneficial to all parties so who knows.

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575327052042240?t=ZgmJ27lxiuas5uOA_ffwLg&s=19

What's certain is that Karmine Corp acquiring a VCT slot is increasing their value a lot and playing at their advantage here.

KC can't "simply" *buy Astralis spot because they don't have the cash right now despite their recent success and profitability

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575329178554370?t=rgsUMqTkzVpxzPzcoq6_uQ&s=19

This is partly because the organization only has two owners (Karmine's name is actually the result of a combination of both their names Kamel and Amine), they haven't sold any shares so far.

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575331149828096?t=yaAXNoCoqL9N_u-EuTpDGQ&s=19

If Karmine Corp do get into LEC it is likely but not certain that they field Hans Sama, Saken & Cabochard on their roster. Players might want to look at offers

In the meantime they've started tryouts for an LFL team, which will exist regardless of them being into the LEC or not

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575333285105664?t=emoQcW8eRi2PItKeKUOPbQ&s=19

Those tryouts include various players and don't indicate anything about the team's priorities on the roster, future signings could literally be anyone outside of those tryouts.

Many players atm can't play tryouts either due to contract restrictions or because of vacations.

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575335218679809?t=W25KqEUCjY6dx5PEuMlXNA&s=19

Here's some names so far in the tryouts

top: melonik, wao jungle: akabane, zanzarah, isma, lurox mid: eika, decay, febiven adc: supa, jezu, takeset supp: hantera, twiizt, stend

coach nerroh also helped with the tryouts

https://twitter.com/LEC_Wooloo/status/1576575337365852161?t=9Gt_nSLSSnd87sFT81zxpw&s=19

*buy - original text says 'but', i am pretty sure that he misspelled.


Can we get some 'f' in the comments for Rekkles 😢

606 Upvotes

358

u/toddsins Rekkles Oct 02 '22

How is loaning an LEC spot even possible?

71

u/F0RGERY Oct 02 '22

Closest thing I can think of was LCS 2016.

Dignitas lost in the spring split and got relegated. Apex Gaming took their spot in the summer. Then, in 2017, Apex and Dignitas got acquired by the 76ers, who changed their name to Dignitas for branding.

I imagine its similar here. AST will allow KC to put their name on the team and rebrand, but mostly its just a title swap.

30

u/gerardmsu Oct 02 '22

Wow, the DIG name has been through it huh. That happened and then they didn't make franchising BUT bought Clutch later and were semi-DIG for Worlds 19.

6

u/Redditsexhypocrisy Oct 02 '22

KC will want to be in charge, tho

5

u/PepegaRedditAnalysis Oct 02 '22

To be honest I was under the impression that RFRSH Entertainment (or whatever Atralis's parent company is/was calledat the time) owned the spot and chose which branding they use for their LEC slot. It's why they came in the league as Origen hoping it would bolster fan support but when xPeke wasn't doing anything and it didn't translate to fan support they switched to Astralis.

Though I think they might've changed up their company structure or something since then so I'm not entirely sure if RFRSH still owns it or Astralis as a separate entity does now.

6

u/Cyberkite Oct 02 '22

Rfresh dosent own it, as they focus more on their tournaments. They got into the issue about owning multiple teams and running a tournament. But the people know each other.

In generel not really trusting AST ownership, and it's ran very poorly.

4

u/Zero-san2201 Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

RFRSH owned Astralis until 2019; latter was spun off from the former due to concerns of conflict of interest due to former owning BLAST (which Astralis CSGO participates in)

Pretty sure the point of Origen rebranding into Astralis is due to them wanting to “rebrand all teams into one brand”, which is the same time as the company itself renamed to Astralis Group.

78

u/Zarerion Oct 02 '22

Well if KC doesn’t have the cash to outright buy it but all parties (AST, KC and Riot) consent and agree that KC to LEC would benefit them all, they would look for some other deal that doesn’t necessarily involve moving as much money in a single transaction. To me, it just sounds like business.

119

u/YokoDk Oct 02 '22

Give them some money they put your name in place of their own possibly let you do all the staffing as well. The spot still belongs to them just Karmine is the team using it instead of them.

11

u/Baldoora Oct 02 '22

Basically renting, byt the word "loan" feels like they're just giving it out for them.

8

u/claimingtrue Oct 02 '22

KC gives some money now with promises to pay AST the rest in installments. If KC defaults on payments or otherwise breaches the contract, AST retains the rights to the spot.

5

u/OilOfOlaz Oct 02 '22

The same way you rent a flat, you sign a contract and pay a fee in order to use the flat, while it is still owed by someone else.

KC would do the same.

Question is if rito is on board with that and I can imagine, that the wouldn't.

2

u/hixagit Oct 02 '22

I'd guess it means KC has the spot and can do whatever they want in LEC this year but sell it. Next year Astralis has it again. KC is hoping they get enough money to buy it next year, Astralis has no cost and hopes KC coming in means they can sell for higher next year, and Riot has KC to generate hype in the league so they win too.

1

u/neyshus Oct 02 '22

sell the spot for x amount of money with contractual agreement to buy it back next season for y amount of money

1

u/Bluehorazon Oct 02 '22

Well Astralis owns a spot in the LEC they can use to field a team. Loaning in this case would mean that the KCorp brand fields a team in Astralis spots and maintains it, while Astralis still technically owns the spot.

This is massively beneficial for Astralis, since they get a permanent income from the loan and still keep ownership of the spot. It might also be beneficial to KCorp if the additional income generated from the LEC spot is higher than the loan they pay to Astralis.

46

u/Scatter5D Oct 02 '22

Damn Kaiba Corp making moves

15

u/James2Go Oct 02 '22

Kaiba is not only expanding the reach of his children's card game. He's also after the children's MOBA game.

12

u/Alchion Oct 02 '22

fck your ancient egyptian antics i sacrifice GOD for my loyal companion,

come forth BLUE-EYES-WHITE-DRAGON

23

u/zaplayer20 Oct 02 '22

I hope, Xerxe and Jeong find a good team to play at. Since i see they also look for support and jungle. The rest of Astralis, could be FA for all i care.

14

u/AstereianAurea Oct 02 '22

Cabo, Xerxe, Saken, Hans and Jeong sounds like a pretty good team. The biggest questionmark would be midlane tho

0

u/zaplayer20 Oct 02 '22

Well the midlanes they look at, all look either washed up or too much unknown. I'd rather go for a LCK or LPL midlaner or invest in a very good midlaner from ERL.

16

u/AstereianAurea Oct 02 '22

if I understand the tweets correctly, then the players they're trying out would be for the LFL team, not the LEC team.

13

u/Iammonkforlifelol Oct 02 '22

They can get Vetheo. He is one of better mids in EU.

1

u/TheHect0r Oct 02 '22

What is to you a pretty good team? A top 6 team? a top 4 team?

4

u/Bluehorazon Oct 02 '22

Well just better than Astralis, this is basically upgrades in all spots but midlane and even here Saken is not bad, but might not be much better than Dajor. Hans for Kobbe and Cabochard for Caczi though sounds like upgrades, but it depends a lot on Hans regaining his EU form.

If they would get Vetheo this might be a top4 team, if not they might look for playoffs, but honestly we don't really know the other teams. But they do have a chance to make a team better than Astralis was.

1

u/AstereianAurea Oct 02 '22

Top 6 possibly gunning for higher. Having cabo and Hans back would already be a good boon for LEC. Top being quite weak as is, and Hans who used to be one of the best ADc in Europe.

Like I said tho, it all depnds on midlane. they could gun for VTO if tey want to go for that french connection

1

u/DianaIsMyWife Oct 03 '22

KCrop need Vetheo.

138

u/gandalf45435 Dyrus Microwave Incident Oct 02 '22

Rekkles to TSM pipeline? /s

69

u/Ursuped Oct 02 '22

We are playing with tactical next year brother just accept it

19

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[deleted]

13

u/Ursuped Oct 02 '22

Eh when you have 3/4 supports in 2 splits it will fuck with your performance.

24

u/Toast119 Oct 02 '22

You also have to give Tactical some credit. He does okay considering Tactical is on his team.

7

u/Sliacen Oct 02 '22

Also being on TSM for 2 splits will fuck with your performance.

10

u/65-76-69-88 Oct 02 '22

But why get rid of him? I don't understand

1

u/wotad Oct 02 '22

Who knows..

1

u/StaticallyTypoed Oct 03 '22

To field french players. Hans was probably cheap after his TL stint too

65

u/Wasabii_KR Oct 02 '22

G2, KC and Heretics. EU is gonna be such a shitfest. Legit EU: Civil War inc.

10

u/TheRainTransmorphed Oct 02 '22

And KOI-Rogue

14

u/Wasabii_KR Oct 02 '22

Oh yeah, that too. Holy fucking shit....I hope Rogue can still keep their main roster and balance stuff out. The peacekeeper

9

u/Qiluk Oct 02 '22

Jesus any playoff event hosted in Spain or France will be bumping even harder

5

u/PsychologicalLie6802 Oct 03 '22

If KC goes to LEC Riot needs to script a KC win in Paris

9

u/Akupoy Oct 02 '22

Why is that?

33

u/Wasabii_KR Oct 02 '22

*points at their fanbase* I don't need to explain that.

19

u/Vrmndt Oct 02 '22

KC - french, Heretics - spaniards, G2 gloryhunters ?

6

u/Akupoy Oct 02 '22

I didn't know heretics fanbase was known for that. But you are right, it will be very interesting.

5

u/G4bbs Oct 02 '22

I'd guess because of some very passionate fanbases

-2

u/Redditsexhypocrisy Oct 03 '22

I'm pretty sure G2 is going to have way less hype in the next few years. Hate him, but G2 was Ocelote baby, it was crazy to follow a team he created earning LCS EU promotion game, until reaching Worlds final and winning the MSI.

Now it's just a team owned by random stakeholders, that could be morally worse than Ocelote for what we know, + Jankos and Caps

7

u/prozapari Oct 02 '22

Nah but at this point franchising spots are purely financial speculation vehicles, how sad.

27

u/nelsonko Oct 02 '22

League of Legends Net revenue in Astralis LoL was DKK 7.6 million in H1 2022 which was DKK 0.2 million lower than H1 2021. Total operating expenses for H1 2022 was DKK 9.9 million which was DKK 0.9 million higher than H1 2021. EBITDA for H1 2022 was DKK -2.2 million which was a decrease of DKK -1.1 million compared to H1 2021.

no wonder Astralis try to sell it. Astralis even hints in the H1 report. What is interesting the value of the LEC slot is greater than the value of the whole org.

8

u/Slurpeddit Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

TIL : danish currency DKK

Didn't know they didn't join the euro trend

Edit: thats danish not dutch. Sorry to both countries x)

15

u/ImAlemira Oct 02 '22

You son of a... how dare you say dutch currency!

11

u/AstereianAurea Oct 02 '22

They're Danish, not Dutch. DKK stands for Dansk Krone

2

u/SanSilver Oct 02 '22

In the Maastricht Treaty Denmark and the UK got an extra rule that they would not need the Euro. The rest of the EU countries should use the Euro if they have a stable enough econemy.

And to all these Swede, Yes you should have the Euro.

8

u/StaticallyTypoed Oct 03 '22

Denmark did however peg the Krone to the Euro, so it's effectively only different in name.

1

u/Zztrox-world-starter Oct 03 '22

Krone pegs the Euro?

6

u/Taivasvaeltaja Oct 02 '22

And that is very likely the best performing org. For other orgs the net loss is in millions of euros, not DKK. (Except maybe BDS?)

3

u/nelsonko Oct 02 '22

yeah there will be many budget cuts this season what is terrible for the players. It seems it is impossible to make any money for any team.

75

u/Axonis Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

It's funny that just because of the "french identity" KC wants to drop Rekkles for Hans. Without strong topside players Hans is more volatile than Rekkles.

51

u/00Koch00 Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

They barely made to playoffs because Rekkles scrapped some wins out of his ass, without him, they are fucking done

I like Cabo, but man, that guy refuses to play weakside and he wasnt that good in the split with strongside ... and utterly shit in the playoffs with Jayce

And with someone like Intera, that refuses to peel his adc, i have no idea how the hell Hans is suppose to survive when he didnt even flash out the most obvious kick back against 100T ...

Edit: I take back what i said about cabo refusign, because Striker was the one with the last Word on the drafts...

10

u/supterfuge Oct 02 '22

I have some hope for Cabochard. He used to play weak side for Vitality at times when the meta demanded it or they felt like they needed other players to get some confidence and step up.

I'm more worried about Saken and the highs he can achieve. How good can he really be ? I wouldn't doubt him too much because of this year's performance. Dude just won 3 EUM in a row, he doesn't have much left to prove at this level.

We know Rekkles is going to be the last player to demand ressources, so if his top laner is willing to play strong side, he always will.

-6

u/00Koch00 Oct 02 '22

Saken highs are humanoid level, the problem is that happens very few times, so most of the time he just looks like Pobelter, i mean he will not throw a game, but he wont win it either...

12

u/Prainstopping TheShy/PromisQ Worlds 2022 Oct 02 '22

Sakens is playing vs LFL fodder though, so his highs are probably quite low.

2

u/00Koch00 Oct 02 '22

Amm, kind of true

0

u/hixagit Oct 02 '22

He played at the same level as Vetheo and Toucouille and both did very well in LEC/LCS. I don't think he will come and dominate the league, but reddit severely underrates Saken imo.

3

u/sp0j Oct 02 '22

Vetheo is a flashy player but he's really not that good in anything but mechanics. He's got a long way to go before he catches up to more veteran mids. Making the comparison to him is not a good indication. Likewise Toucouille is playing in LCS with much weaker opponents.

-1

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 02 '22

Older league fans are not going to like this but no Rekkles was not a knight in shining armor dragging everyone across the finish line

KCORPS third championship was off the back of Cabo and 113 having 2v2 control over the top side while Rekkles scales. He was great late game insurance and yes, he was the best ADC in the LFL or at least top 2, but no he was not even KCORP's most important player

I get that Rekkles is the western GOAT ADC and 113 is just some cracked out kid who coinflips a lot, but I'd argue that a lot of KCORP's wins were more attributable to 113 rolling heads than Rekkles carrying. Yes, Rekkles had some monster carry performances once he has a level and an item on the enemy ADC, but a lot of KCORP games were over at 15 minutes because everyone *but* Rekkles was ROFLstomping their opponents.

I feel the need to reiterate 3x that I do NOT think Rekkles was bad. He deserves LEC, he's a great player. But I think he did not mesh well with KCORP and the other 4 players have had great ERL success without him too. I think you might be surprised at how well 113 would play if he had an aggressive ADC, or how good Cabo's weakside is if he's on a team where Hans Sama is playing strong side

10

u/00Koch00 Oct 02 '22

113 landing head it's literally not dying at 5 minutes. That's not a coinflip, that's trying to not choke.

1

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 03 '22

Acting like the most volatile player in the league just "doesn't die" during his good games is certainly a take, he usually has 100% KP in bloody, bloody early games and puts a fuck ton of pressure top side. I know he ints a lot and throws whole games often but vs USE vs X7 had he not carried, KC would not be a 3x EUM champion

3

u/darkjeanmi Oct 03 '22

KCORPS thirds championship was off the back of Saken and Rekkles holding the map 2V4* while cabo needed 3 man top every 2 waves to bully toplaners with half his exp (and that was barely only working half the time)

They even had to adjust in EUM. Play around Saken early, Rekkles after and cabo on tanks (wich he is incredible on, don't get me wrong)

Most undeserved split mvp of all time imo.

1

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 04 '22

Barely working half the time? He was usually their win con and KCORP would have early gold leads all the time, even with 113 being down 4 camps. Rekkles and Saken held down the map completely fine but it's not like Cabo wasn't the reason they won just because he got ganked. Rekkles was often great late game insurance but KCORP usually didn't need it because they'd win

Also oftentimes the enemy top would also play strong side and just get hand gapped by Cabo and 113, not like Rekkles and Saken were getting turbocamped while Cabo hogged all the resources

1

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

KCorp 3rd EUM was Saken 1v9ing like a madman the Quarters/Semi and Finals man

2

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 03 '22

To be fair 113 had very good Quarters and Cabo very good Semis but yeah Saken played his heart out

1

u/Falendil Oct 03 '22

I cannot take a comment praising 113 seriously. I don’t care who the fuck is in the next KC roster but i hope to god i never have to witness this kid play again.

1

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 04 '22

set a remindme if he's on an ERL roster with an aggressive ADC/top he will be playing out of his god damn mind

1

u/Falendil Oct 04 '22

Fuck no i’m not, you set your own remind me. The few lines i’ve spent on him are already more than he deserves.

1

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 04 '22

RemindMe! 140 days

4

u/Linko_98 Oct 02 '22

They dont have Money to buy the LEC spot and you want them to keep Rekkles another year with his huge salary?

Hans probably has lower wages since he wants to join KC and be loved by french fans.

24

u/sowydso Oct 02 '22

its actually a good idea if you think business side. France could very well be a minor region given the size of its fan base; it's literally free money. I don't think KC could do well in LEC in any means but still

26

u/licorices Oct 02 '22

I think Rekkles himself has a big enough fanbase to make up for it, I could 100% understand 113, or something, but they're already plenty French with 3 players and don't think Hans for Rekkles will do a huge thing for business in terms of fans.

3

u/Bluehorazon Oct 02 '22

In all honesty though Rekkles to Hans is still likely not the biggest downgrade. Keeping any of the other players over a non-french guy is much worse. The gap between Saken and some of the free agents available like Vetheo is much much bigger, same goes for jungle were you could just keep Xerxe over 113 or support where Astralis has one of the top supports of the league.

If you want to keep a somewhat french identity then getting Hans to drop one of the other french players seems reasonable.

1

u/fabton12 Oct 02 '22

its most likely a case that there looking to grow that fan base even more, theres only so much they can bank on rekkles fans like what would they do once rekkles decides to leave or goes bad once that happens they will lose most of the rekkles fans instead of gaining fans from having a mostly french roaster.

-7

u/Safe-Hat-8393 Oct 02 '22

You say that it's just because of the "french identity" but you probably watched 1 KCorp game at most. The team didnt work as well as expected, Rekkles doesnt seem to fit in very well and changes are needed if we get to LEC, Hans is an amazing opportunity so it's pure logic to consider him.

27

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '22

[deleted]

-11

u/Safe-Hat-8393 Oct 02 '22

I never said it was entirely Rekkles' fault and you dont know anything about sports in general if you cant think about what happens outside the game, Rekkles didnt seem to adapt well to the team and the org, spent most of his time in Sweden, missed bootcamps and played from home during crucial games. I love him tho but we felt like the excitation he showed when joining (he talked about living in Paris and learning french) vanished at some point.

2

u/LillaOscarEUW Oct 03 '22

Excitement?

Maybe it died because he learned french(; MDR

28

u/FBG_Ikaros Oct 02 '22

How about you just throw away your dog jungle and support aka the most important roles in this game.

2

u/mimiflou Oct 02 '22

Do you really think Hantera and 113 gonna be in LEC ?

13

u/FBG_Ikaros Oct 02 '22

IDK, i have seen two spilts of xMatty and years of PromisQ. I wouldnt trust EU orgs to even properly wipe their asses.

2

u/Prainstopping TheShy/PromisQ Worlds 2022 Oct 02 '22

PromisQ looked good his last year though and even at his worse would make Hantera is bitch.

2

u/mimiflou Oct 02 '22

xMatty and PromisQ are league better than 113 and hantera tho, 113 isn't even LFL worthy

-19

u/Safe-Hat-8393 Oct 02 '22

How about you go back to your cave and try to learn respect ? They gonna stay in LFL another year obviously

3

u/TheHect0r Oct 02 '22

Lmfao Said the kc caveman

5

u/FBG_Ikaros Oct 02 '22

Ohh did i offend a KC frog? Respect is earned not given.

-2

u/Safe-Hat-8393 Oct 02 '22

Just dont call a 17yo kid a dog, thats basic shit for most human beings

3

u/FBG_Ikaros Oct 02 '22

Ok what do you want then? Griefer? Inter? Noob? Wintrader?

0

u/OneLFLLVPquestion Oct 02 '22

Lol KCORP might not have been a championship team in spring had 113 not done unspeakable things to Lurox and Haru

1

u/Slurpeddit Oct 02 '22

Maybe these players know each other and want to play together in LEC

And maybe I mean I'm sure it adds in the equation. French players and streamers all know each other and talk to each other.

During his off split nisqy steamed a lot and you could see how much he interacted with french players when he encountered them in game (yes he is Belgian but as french speaker he's a bro to France)

1

u/Troviel Oct 02 '22

it's not just the french identity, according to some coaches there was some issues with him.

1

u/Samsonkoek Oct 03 '22

But Hans actually wins you games, Hans has more good than bad metas and Rekkles is atm the opposite. The mythic item overhaul doesn't fit Rekkles.

1

u/Bluehorazon Oct 02 '22

Hans isn't even the worse, but they apparently also want to keep Saken, who is not good enough for LEC, at least not for a top team.

Technically KCorp has good parts already together. Take Support and Jungle from Astralis add your own ADC and top and get a good midlaner like Vetheo who is a free agent. Yes you will only have one french player, but LEC is a european league, not a french one.

However I wouldn't fault them for getting Hans Sama, he isn't a bad option either, keeping Saken just because he is french would be more questionable for me.

1

u/Vicinitiez Oct 03 '22

Cabo Hans vetheo is 3 french not one?

1

u/Bluehorazon Oct 03 '22

Completely forgot that Vetheo is actually another french player, so yeah there isn't really an excuse to get him over Saken if you get the chance.

11

u/65-76-69-88 Oct 02 '22

I seriously don't understand why they would get rid of Rekkles if they manage to get into LEC. Cabo and him literally dragged KCs dead corpse around, save that one time Saken chose to wake up at EUM.

4

u/MegaBaumTV Oct 02 '22

I seriously don't understand why they would get rid of Rekkles if they manage to get into LEC

Hans sama is french and either the KC fanbase or the management seem to actually care about that.

4

u/65-76-69-88 Oct 02 '22

I mean, having 3/5 players be French is already decent. Also Rekkles has a huge fanbase in France

0

u/DianaIsMyWife Oct 03 '22

3/5

Cabo, Vetheo, Hans

0

u/65-76-69-88 Oct 03 '22

I was talking about current roster

33

u/FBG_Ikaros Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Saken mid lane LOL have fun at the bottom.

2

u/DianaIsMyWife Oct 03 '22

KCrop need Vetheo.

87

u/Kassadin4buser Oct 02 '22

bottom feeder team just with another name, gj

26

u/Skeel42 Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

Idk, Cabo and Saken were pretty good in ERL (KC won 3 out of 4 last EU masters) and Hans can be very good in a good environment (he was arguably the best western adc last year in terms of performance)

They can atleast aim for top 6 with these 3 players

41

u/Aoes1 Oct 02 '22

Saken is not good enough for a team with KCs ambition, and it would be very illogical for hans to join them as they wont make worlds (most likely)

34

u/Skeel42 Oct 02 '22

Yeah Saken is the biggest question mark. If they want a core french roster they just have to take Vetheo instead

8

u/Aoes1 Oct 02 '22

Yeah, another aspect is obviously support and jungle with the market foe both of these roles being quite closed so idk

20

u/inde99 Oct 02 '22

They could go Xerxe + Jeonghoon. Pretty good duo and already contracted to AST. They'd have to drop the (dumb) idea of a french-only roster though

-18

u/Th3_Huf0n Oct 02 '22

Stop. Suggesting. JeongHoon.

Holy fuck.

11

u/inde99 Oct 02 '22

Why? Top EU supports are already locked. Targa, Trymbi, Kaiser, Hyli aren't leaving their teams; if Miky does leave XL it'll probably be for VIT. The other LEC supports are pretty meh and those from ERL don't look more exciting either

0

u/pelacur Light air conditionerboy Oct 02 '22

CoreJJ

2

u/brockoli1010 Oct 02 '22

Support and jungle is the biggest aspect. Saken isn’t top 5 LEC mid and competitive LoL is run by mid/jg/sup.

1

u/Enkenz Oct 02 '22

if you go full FA , they could land vetheo-hans-santorin,top renewing Cabo that's such a solid core

1

u/BestMundoNA Oct 02 '22

selfmade vol 4?

11

u/Lekka09 Oct 02 '22

I mean, he didnt even make worlds in NA, whats the big deal with doing the same in eu? :3

7

u/FelysFrost Oct 02 '22

I'm not sure that Cabo and Hans on the same team makes a lot of sense, obviously plently of teams do just find ways to agree on how to play, but those two seem historically to have been at their best in conflicting set ups, I'd be curious to see it, but idk that I would be expecting it to work super well

5

u/Aoes1 Oct 02 '22

Yeah you are right

2

u/Automatic-Win1398 Oct 02 '22

You say that but in theory Rekkles and Cabo would have been a match made in heaven.

2

u/FelysFrost Oct 02 '22

I would say not just in theory but practice too, I think they want the same things from jungle/support, the problem was the ability of jungle/support to do those things

6

u/east_is_Dead Oct 02 '22

i dont think they will drop saken as he has been a long standing member of the org, hes very popular with french fans and it will look bad for them if they drop him as soon as they have the chance to join lec.

3

u/VERTIKAL19 Oct 02 '22

He could be the core of their LFL roster

4

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

Refusing to give a second shot to Saken would be kind of criminal. Especially when you see what he was capable of when he was motivated. He already finished the ERL's game during the Spring Split. If he stay in LFL, I'm afraid that he'll just either leave or just become weaker

1

u/Prainstopping TheShy/PromisQ Worlds 2022 Oct 02 '22

Saken being able to shit on LFL mids once in a blue moon isn't exactly a good look.

If he wanted to get a shot in the LEC he would always be "motivated".

3

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

I mean, he was like that in Spring/Summer 2021 when he had to prove himself once more. And it was quite insane to watch.

That being said, the french speaking midlaners are putting him in the middle tier LEC according to their scrims

2

u/OilOfOlaz Oct 02 '22

KC is a team without outside backing, playing their first split in the lec, they most certainly won't be able to compete with top teams, as long as some players don't take a major discount.

2

u/Awkward-Security7895 Oct 02 '22

What team would Hans join if his goal is world's? Let's look at the top 4 teams, there's fnatic who has upset which they won't replace, mad lions with unforg1ven which is very unlikely Tobe replaced, G2 with flakked which could get replaced but doubt since they had the option of Hans last year and didn't take it and rogue the team he left(which is also rumoured Tobe getting rekkless with there brand change to KOI next year).

So theres no landing spot for him on the top 4 and alot of teams in lec already have great adc's so he's only got 2-3 landing spots really if he wants Tobe in LEC.

7

u/Root-of-Evil Hooded Virgin Nerdy Girl Oct 02 '22

If rogue drop comp for rekkles they're unbelievably stupid, two completely different styles of play

1

u/PotatoHentai Oct 02 '22

I hope rogue get out of groups at worlds, have a good showing and don't switch any players. Synergy is precious and it would be stupid to switch anyone when they finally made it work. Look at how it went for mad lions and their players that left, all dropped in performance.

1

u/Root-of-Evil Hooded Virgin Nerdy Girl Oct 02 '22

Agree, but we'll see if the branding/ownership change pushes anything.

1

u/PotatoHentai Oct 02 '22

That would be incredibly dumb i hope they don't do something stupid but we never know

3

u/Aoes1 Oct 02 '22

I mean vita's project is clear imo and each year they are investing towards that goal, i thing its the best option that he has unless mad or g2 open up a spot

9

u/frosthowler Oct 02 '22

I have no idea where he got the rumor about Rekkless to RGE/KOI. It just makes no sense, why would they drop Comp? Rekkless to VIT makes a ton more sense.

1

u/Falendil Oct 03 '22

Vitality?

1

u/amicaze April Fools Day 2018 Oct 04 '22

Saken has won 3 EUMasters in a row, if he aint good enough for LEC, I don't know who is.

7

u/PuReCrAzYZx Oct 02 '22

Saken is probablt the weakest member on the team.

20

u/obigespritzt Faker Gosu Oct 02 '22

You cannot be seriously watching 113 play and tell me that...

2

u/PsychologicalLie6802 Oct 03 '22

113 is gone for sure

0

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

He was litterally their best member during the final part of the split. It was almost unfair how he carried them through the Spring EUM. Outshining hard Cabo and Rekky

1

u/BrokenBiscuit Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I just wanna refute this myth about Hans being the best European ADC Last year. Though he was probably the best performing ADC at worlds - where he was legit doing very good - he was never in the argument for best ADC in EU during spring or summer, regular season or playoffs. He didn't get all pro team any split (and that was pretty uncontroversial).

I feel like this is some revisionist conspiracy to try and justify why TL was supposed to be better than they were. Not that Hans was (or is) bad, he just wasn't the best in his role during that season - except for the 6 bo1's he played at worlds.

Controversial opinion: TL was just never as much of a super team as people wanted them to be. I find it funny to think about that outside the outliers of Dajor and CoreJJ, the players of TL had about the same amount of historical merit as the players of Astralis.

7

u/RavenFAILS Oct 02 '22

Bwipo getting worlds finals, while Viziscaci got blasted in quarters. Bjergsen having immense domestic success, same for Santorin recently and Hans sama being 1 fight away from getting semis over SKT.

Your opinion isnt controversial its just straight up not based on facts

-1

u/BrokenBiscuit Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

It think it says it a lot about your objectivity when Bwipo lost 3-0 and csacsi lost 3-1 but the latter was the one who "got blasted".

Hans might have gone 3-2 vs the finalists in SKT but Kobbe and Xerxe went even in groups with FPX who won worlds.

I wouldn't personally rate the domestic titles of Bjerg and Santorin as highly, as they played in a weaker league. I don't think an NA team was ever called a "super team" because their players had had domestic succes.

It's true that Bwiope made finals once but other than that, quarters at worlds is the best achievement of alle the other 8 players. That is quite literally facts. (Edit: I'm wrong, forgot about Jeonghoon)

3

u/RavenFAILS Oct 02 '22

Are you seriously comparing Hans sama 2-3 against SKT to Splyce winning 1 game against FPX in group stage where they also lost a game to Jteam?

Did you even watch the games?

Apparently Jteam is a powerhouse then and significantly better than 2016 TSM, I mean they both didnt make it out of groups right?

-3

u/BrokenBiscuit Oct 02 '22

You are literally arguing over 1 game differences and that one win/lose is crucial while disregarding completely similar win/loses.

If you're really seriously implying that the results of 2017 MSF is miles better than 2016 SPY and that anyone who would think otherwise is an idiot, we'll, then I honestly don't really think you're the kind of person I wanna discuss this with...

-1

u/NeekoBestTomato Oct 03 '22

If you watched the games you'd know that 2018 fnc was gigaboosted by bracket draw and hans was a passenger in that msf series.

That tl roster was legit a collection of some of the most ovverated Western players in recent history.

-1

u/TheHect0r Oct 02 '22

During 2021 summer it was somewhat close between people saying hans sama or Upset. But what really solidified the myth of Hans sama being the strongest adc in the west by 2021 was that escape play he did vs DWG ( I think) because he was the most relevant member of the team in that particular by a huge margin. But having watched the entirety of the 21 summer season Upset was better to me and if the wife incident hadnt happened eu fans would be worshipping as the new rekkles right now for sure

2

u/Hefty_Fun_5644 Oct 03 '22

Rekkles was best at spring and hans was best at summer. Upset was best at summer playoffs. Hans was worldclass during worlds. But Upset also got most rss of all the adcs. And Rekkles got the fewest, he had some of the lowest duo proximity in both splits. Also carzzy deserves a shutout, he was together with hans best during spring playoffs and was insane at msi, actully playing worldclass.

Overall hans was nr 1 over the hole year.

1

u/Suipho HANS SAMA SIMP Oct 03 '22

Hans and trymbi had the most 2v2 kill with the most herbivore jungler in the league 2021

1

u/Samsonkoek Oct 03 '22

Saken's weakness was always laning, it is/was already visible at times during his play on KC. But it never amounted to anything, however against top LEC mids or most LEC mids in general, it most likely will hurt a lot.

1

u/Hazakurain Also an Excel fan Oct 03 '22

I hope so, so that the KC dumbos on twitter will stop being annoying.

Despite the reality check they got in LFL, they still believe they can win worlds lol

4

u/GGLeon Never Ever Remake Tryndamere Please Thanks Oct 02 '22

How will I continue to support Astralis for no reason whatsoever tho?

Random diehard AST fans unite

2

u/-The-Laughing-Man- Oct 03 '22

Not sure if /s but I'd actually be really disappointed. When Origen finally came back, because of RFRSH, I thought they'd be around for the long-term. Even when they switched to astralis, I went along because without the AST backing origen would've never been resurrected at all. But now, this is watching my team get "dissolved" all over again. It's sucks pretty hard ngl.

15

u/MiliW_ Oct 02 '22

So nothing will happen cool

6

u/MorkHviske Oct 02 '22

KOI vs KC will be a fucking banger

5

u/RedsRaver Oct 02 '22

Hans and no Rekkles?

0

u/NOWAY_YESWAY Oct 02 '22

There is no confrimation of anything and they all think its true

5

u/MegaBaumTV Oct 02 '22

Wooloo has proven himself to be a reliable source in the last 2 years or so. Like it or not but at least theres a reason why people take his word as gospel. Same for Jacob Wolf.

2

u/eSports_News_UK Dom Sacco | Journalist Oct 03 '22

His spot? Did you just assume Astralis' gender?

2

u/Sondeor Oct 03 '22

Dude, i dont really understand this rekkles droppin race tbh.

Im not a rekkles Fan, actually im noones fan but he was good at G2, then he literally carried KC a lot. There is a mood over all around LEC that everybody for a reason forgot how good he is and acts like he is a bottom Tier Player.

If i was on MAD Management, i would Take rekkles without thinking If they can afford the salary ofc. Rekkles performs very very good in a stable place.

Btw for rge, FNC and G2 (i dont think flakked is good but they seem happy with him so) i can understand Not wanting rekkles. But the rest of teams would use him or could use him.

2

u/NepTheNap Oct 03 '22

Any team would profit with Rekkles.

G2 dropped him, because they needed a black sheep.

Wunder and Jankos both said, they fucked up because they were just bad. Rekkles did the best at this time according to them (some interview a whole while back).

I'm not a fan of him either, but I have to acknowledge his insane skill

3

u/sp0j Oct 02 '22 edited Oct 02 '22

I don't understand this logic. You could have rekkles and Nemesis. But instead you go Hans and Saken.

I guess it's because they are French. But LEC is not the place to draft worse players just for cultural identity. And when you factor in that both Rekkles and Nemesis already have huge personal brands it's even more weird. They are gold mines for org profitability if you take advantage of them.

4

u/Sondeor Oct 03 '22

Nemesis never was a top tier player. Dont get me wrong, he is decent and good but his ceiling is not that high and his personality is kinda close to learn since he always thinks that he knows better.

Plus, he doesnt play pro for 2 years now iirc. If nemesis wants to go pro again, he should join a middle/low tier team and show that he is still good. But he clearly said that he doesnt want it soooo.... When u put everything together it makes sense, at least to me.

0

u/sp0j Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

Nemesis is top tier. He was easily top 2 in Europe while he was playing. Even in his bad final split if you watched his actual gameplay and decision making it was very good. It's the nature of those games and the sacrifices he made that made him look bad in the eyes of stat watchers and narratives. The team dynamic was really unfortunate and he was scapegoated by the community. But his playoffs and world's performance was better than players like Larssen and Humanoid even though everyone was saying he was worse.

Everyone knowledgeable about the game recognises him as a very talented player. If you just watch any of his gameplay soloq or pro games his mechanics are nutty. And most pro players have said he's really good. The fan narrative is completely disconnected from reality.

Joining a mid/low tier team is a gamble and not worth it for him. He will stream until he finds a team he believes in. Nemesis has said many times most orgs don't build cohesive rosters so they won't succeed. It makes sense with his position that he would only join a team that has cohesion because he recognises that as the only chance to win world's. He's never ruled out playing with rookies either. He's holding out for the right formula, which I respect even if I really want him to return and just prove people wrong.

1

u/Falendil Oct 03 '22

Where is Nemesis coming from in this discussion? He hasn’t played in years and doesn’t seem to want to come back.

1

u/sp0j Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

He's hinted at returning. Him and Rekkles respect each other and have similar game philosophy. If you are building a top tier team around Rekkles the most logical choice is Nemesis. There literally isn't anyone else good enough unless you want to import a Korean but even then I think you will struggle to find someone better that's available.

Saying he hasn't played in years is disingenuous. He hasn't had a team for 2 years. But he's been active in KR Challenger soloq for the whole time. Probably has more practice than some active pro's.

1

u/Falendil Oct 03 '22

Yea by not playing in years i meant not competitively, i don’t doubt he’d had the individual skills to come back if he wanted.

You seem to vastly over estimate him though. He was good when he played, LEC caliber without the shadow of a doubt but i never saw in him the absolute top tier player you’re describing.

2

u/sp0j Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

He was top 2 even in the eyes of broadcast narrative and general fans for a good portion of his time in pro. His last split ruined his reputation because he made too many sacrifices for his team that made him look bad and ultimately noone remembers anything but that.

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-2

u/Vast-Equipment-7971 Oct 02 '22

Please no.
Only two orgs i dont want in LEC is faze and KC, first one is full of scammers, other one has mega toxic fanbase.

19

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

You already have G2 and Fnatic man

5

u/MegaBaumTV Oct 02 '22

dont need a third one then

1

u/TheInfiniteJerk Oct 02 '22

Why not complaining in order to remove the other two ?

3

u/MegaBaumTV Oct 02 '22

the devil you know and all.

1

u/Sondeor Oct 03 '22

I mean isnt every fanbase toxic at some point? They act and think emotional rather than logic. Thats what being a fan is.

French fans are the Most toxic one for sure, i wouldnt even argue about that. But still it would be fun whenever they lose lol.

I enjoyed the "adam incident" more than anything for ex. Remember Adam being the "best" top laner, better than armut and Wunder and Odo that year lmao.

1

u/Lentir Oct 03 '22

Vit Rekkles vs KC Hans Sama Pog

0

u/DKRFrostlife Oct 02 '22

Febi and Eika. Far from being a fan of that, just find another ERL mid.

0

u/DerpSkeeZy Oct 02 '22

To be 100% honest it's pretty shrewd or straight up good business if you basically own the rights to the spot (Astralis) but have someone else (Karmine) operate it for a time. Especially if they are covering all the operating costs and possibly even franchise fees which were on hold during COVID. The value of an LEC slot will likely/hopefully go up while you can just sit back and not worry about day to day operations.

1

u/MegaBaumTV Oct 02 '22

We just need to get Xerxe/Jeong/Kobbe proper sololanes.

1

u/Alchion Oct 02 '22

febiven would love to see him again

1

u/Crislack Oct 02 '22

All this is confusing, is it rent?, is it leasing? I hope Riot explains this operation well, because other clubs might want to do the same with their spot to do business without having expenses and how do you deny it even after giving it to others?

1

u/Sondeor Oct 03 '22

Other sports have this too If they have the Franchise system.

Basically astralis will participate as KC, but in this case, if astralis wants their spot back, they can have it.

Very simple version; Think Teams as a truck, the Truck would be still the same but they will change the look of the Truck, rebrand it and another driver drives it. But the Truck is still the same one. They Just rent it, operations and all.

1

u/CoachGiveAdvice Oct 02 '22

Do we know if the other 9 owners have a right to say anything about this ?

1

u/Outrageous_Sort402 Oct 03 '22

G2, FNC, VIT (?), KC, KOI & Heretics, if these teams are competitive (let's hope) next split is going to break all kind of viewership record for the region

0

u/Obvious-Computer-778 Oct 02 '22

Rekkles to VIT?

7

u/Character-Length5997 Oct 02 '22

Would be an immense upgrade since vit needs a fodder adc who waits and scales while they play for botside but I doubt vitality makes any good decision. The league management has been shit so far.

3

u/Obvious-Computer-778 Oct 03 '22

Absolutely, it would allow more jungle pressure top/mid which is something Alphari prefers and would create quite a stable team imo

0

u/-The-Laughing-Man- Oct 03 '22

As a fan, this would suck.